by the time we get there

Good day!

cambridge.org:
"will have" is used for referring to tướng the past from a point in the future:
(1) By the time we get there, Jim will have left.
As I understand it can

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only

mean one variant:
— "Jim's leaving" will be

before

"our getting there"

My examples:
(2) By the time we get there, Jim will leave.
As I understand it can

only

mean two variants:
— "Jim's leaving" will be

before

"our getting there"
— "Jim's leaving" and "our getting there" will occur

simultaneously

(3) By the time we have got there, Jim will leave.
As I understand it can

only

mean one variant:
— "Jim's leaving" and "our getting there" will occur

simultaneously

(4) By the time we have got there, Jim will have left.

Am I right about (1), (2) & (3) and if not, then why?
What does (4) mean?

Thanks!

  • By the time we get there, Jim will have left. :tick::tick::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    (2) and (3) are not idiomatic. And (4) does not need a perfect tense twice. If (1) is what you mean, you should stick to tướng the standard construction.

    (2) and (3) are not idiomatic.

    #2 is:
    By the time we get there, Jim will leave.

    Correct examples from this thread:
    I will return the book by this time next week.
    I will return the book to tướng you by Monday.

    All these three examples are analogous to tướng each other. Then why is only my example incorrect?

    Thanks!

    No, they’re not. Your (unidiomatic) version means Jim will leave AFTER you get there. The others mean the book will be returned BEFORE next week/Monday.

    Your (unidiomatic) version means Jim will leave AFTER you get there.

    You say:
    By the time we get there, Jim will leave. = After the time we get there, Jim will leave.

    I've looked up "by" in ldoceonline.com and found there only "before" meaning:
    by — before or not later than vãn a particular time:
    The documents need to tướng be ready by next Friday.
    I reckon the film should be over by 9.30.
    By the kết thúc of the day we had sold over 2,000 tickets.
    By the time we got trang chủ we were tired and hungry.

    But I haven't found "after" meaning. Could you explain to tướng má what you meant?

    Thanks!

    Xem thêm: MitomTV - Trang xem bóng đá được yêu thích nhất ở Việt Nam

    Of those four examples, the last two are irrelevant as they’re about past situations. But the first two both refer to tướng something that is expected to tướng have happened by a certain time that is yet to tướng come. Note that neither of them uses the so-called future tense (will/be going to), and that both of them refer to tướng a state, not an action (be ready/be over).

    When you say “by” a certain time, you’re specifying an endpoint or deadline in the future and saying that

    when that time arrives you expect something to tướng have already happened. For that to tướng be the case, it must happen during the period leading up to the specified time.

    It’s therefore a contradiction in terms to tướng say — as you’re trying to tướng — that by a specific future endpoint something will happen in the future, as opposed to tướng will already have happened or be the case.

    By the time we get there, Jim will leave :cross:

    The moment we get there, Jim will leave :tick: (But this means he won’t leave until you arrive)

    By the time we get there, Jim will have left :tick:

    By the time we get there, Jim will be gone :tick:

    By the time we get there, Jim will leave :cross:

    If we replace the words after "by": "the time we get there" with "Monday":
    Jim will leave by Monday.
    Is it correct now and if the answer is "yes", then why?

    Thanks!

    Is it correct now and if the answer is "yes", then why?

    Yes
    Because it's natural, i.e. we say it that way.

    If we replace the words after "by": "the time we get there" with "Monday":
    Jim will leave by Monday.
    Is it correct now and if the answer is "yes", then why?

    Thanks!

    So:
    By the time we get there, Jim will leave by Monday.
    No. That's even worse. "The time we get there" and "Monday" are two unrelated times that you are connecting to tướng one sự kiện.

    By the time we get there... is used when something will happen before we get there. The thing that happens is in the past relative to tướng "when we get there." The thing happens in the past.
    Jim will leave... is used when Jim is leaving in the future. But "By the time we get there" says that Jim is leaving in the past of the sự kiện "when we get there" (before we get there) not in the future of the sự kiện "when we get there" (after we get there).

    So:
    By the time we get there, Jim will leave by Monday.
    No. That's even worse. "The time we get there" and "Monday" are two unrelated times that you are connecting to tướng one sự kiện.

    If you say it about "By the time we get there, Jim will leave by Monday", then I didn't write such a sentence.

    By the time we get there... is used when something will happen before we get there. The thing that happens is in the past relative to tướng "when we get there." The thing happens in the past.
    Jim will leave... is used when Jim is leaving in the future. But "By the time we get there" says that Jim is leaving in the past of the sự kiện "when we get there" (before we get there) not in the future of the sự kiện "when we get there" (after we get there).

    At this moment there's the following issue:

    We have the one of the OP's sentences about which lingobingo said that it's incorrect:
    By the time we get there, Jim will leave.

    Xem thêm: hô hào vận động đông du

    And we have the other sentence about which sdgraham said that it's correct:
    Jim will leave by Monday.

    For má these two sentences are analogous to tướng each other. Why is the first incorrect and the second correct?

    Thanks!